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hasn't paid any taxes for ten years. let me him that he has paid taxes, because he hasn't. >> now reid said he got his information from a former bane investor. without any further explanation, he was awarded the maximum number of pinocchios. also u.n. ambassador susan rice has come to terms with the circumstances that led her to take her own name of of the running for secretary of state. her opening line, quite, my talking points for this evening have been provided to me and fully cleared by the intelligence community. how could this possibly go wrong? believe it or not, things took a turn for the palin later on in her speech. quote, day after day, i engage in highly substantive, highly technical negotiations with my colleagues here at the u.n. like the russians. as a matter of fact, i can see the russian mission from my house. >>> finally, did you think the holidays would come and go without seeing president obama singing "deck the halls." not so. he is back in the game. ♪ deck the halls with bows of holly ♪ ♪ fa-
hasn't paid any taxes for ten years. let me him that he has paid taxes, because he hasn't. >> now reid said he got his information from a former bane investor. without any further explanation, he was awarded the maximum number of pinocchios. also u.n. ambassador susan rice has come to terms with the circumstances that led her to take her own name of of the running for secretary of state. her opening line, quite, my talking points for this evening have been provided to me and fully cleared...
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Dec 30, 2012
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estate tax, that's a big sticking point. the senate republicans will insist it sticks at its current rate. >> thank you. we'll be back in a moment. this is "hard ball," the place for politics. [ buzzing ] for politics. bye dad. drive safe. k. love you. [ chirping, buzzing continues ] [ horn honks ] [ buzzing continues ] [ male announcer ] the sprint drive first app. blocks and replies to texts while you drive. we can live without the &. visit sprint.com/drive. starts with arthritis pain and a choice. take tylenol or take aleve, the #1 recommended pain reliever by orthopedic doctors. just two aleve can keep pain away all day. back to the news. "are you a cool mom?" i'm gonna find out. [ female announcer ] swiffer wetjet's pads are better than ever. now they have the scrubbing power of mr. clean magic eraser so you don't have to get down on your hands and knees to scrub away tough, dried-on stains. hey, do you guys think i'm "momtacular" or "momtrocious"? ♪ [ female announcer ] swiffer. now with the scrubbing power of mr. cl
estate tax, that's a big sticking point. the senate republicans will insist it sticks at its current rate. >> thank you. we'll be back in a moment. this is "hard ball," the place for politics. [ buzzing ] for politics. bye dad. drive safe. k. love you. [ chirping, buzzing continues ] [ horn honks ] [ buzzing continues ] [ male announcer ] the sprint drive first app. blocks and replies to texts while you drive. we can live without the &. visit sprint.com/drive. starts with...
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Dec 29, 2012
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>> well, the thing that will get them piqued is that tax rates. obama is preferring a $250,000 threshold, but in the process of trying to hammer out the deal, it is raised to $400,000 or $500,0 $500,000, and the base is going to be angry about that, and that is offset by satisfaction that some of the entitlement reforms that the president had signed off on earlier such as changing the structure for social security will not likely be in this deal, and obviously, everything remains to be seen, and the estate tax is a big sticking point, because obama wants to see it go up, and the senate republicans will insist that it stay at the current rate. >> thank you, robert costa and sam stein. we will be back in a moment. this is "hardball," the place for politics. >>> welcome back to hardball. what will a deal look like if there is one? and who is going to wind up giving up more on the tax cuts for wealthy americans? harry reid insists $250,000 is a threshold, but it may not hold. joining me now is josh green of bloomberg business week. josh, for the marke
>> well, the thing that will get them piqued is that tax rates. obama is preferring a $250,000 threshold, but in the process of trying to hammer out the deal, it is raised to $400,000 or $500,0 $500,000, and the base is going to be angry about that, and that is offset by satisfaction that some of the entitlement reforms that the president had signed off on earlier such as changing the structure for social security will not likely be in this deal, and obviously, everything remains to be...
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not through any tax breaks or anything like that. but through getting back to work and getting their paychecks back up. that's what they want to do. >> now, governor, you have had to deal with people of opposing parties. you've had to compromise. you've seen them compromise. that's what government does. but when you get inflexible people that seem to not understand the pain of the ordinary american, how do you break this gridlock? >> well, it's very hard. and the point you made, rev, is a very good one. the president did move with entitlements and it did anger a cig n significant portion of his base. but the president agrees that you can't set this nation's economy on a healthy path that cease going to take care of our deficit and make it a managinin bart of gdp. he knows we can't asked the republicans to raise it 1.2, 1.3 trillion in revenue. he's reached out and made cig nif kant concessions and the response to that was nothing. it is pathetic. >> jaret, let me ask you, if we go over the cliff, what ps? is there not an immediate im
not through any tax breaks or anything like that. but through getting back to work and getting their paychecks back up. that's what they want to do. >> now, governor, you have had to deal with people of opposing parties. you've had to compromise. you've seen them compromise. that's what government does. but when you get inflexible people that seem to not understand the pain of the ordinary american, how do you break this gridlock? >> well, it's very hard. and the point you made,...
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the alternative minimum tax which all of us, again, agree should not apply to 26 million americans. we agree on that. let's vote on that. let's create that certainty and move forward. let's create a path to move forward to deal with comprehensive tax policy in a fair and responsible way and let's deal with the deficit and the balance in a fair away. john boehner basically said no to all of that. and that's really not acceptable leadership. >> is there any -- should harry reid amend the bill that the house sent over at all? the fact is, harry reid has -- needs to add republican cooperation. he wants to say, look, this isn't a game. this isn't show. you know, i can bring out a bill, pass a bill. if john boehner says i'm not going to look at that, what's the point? let's make something happen here. that is what the american people are looking for. we're concerned about the fiscal and economic policies. there's a recovery period that we're experiencing to put more challenges before the economy both consumers and investors. let's create certainty. let's make sure that we pass tax cuts fo
the alternative minimum tax which all of us, again, agree should not apply to 26 million americans. we agree on that. let's vote on that. let's create that certainty and move forward. let's create a path to move forward to deal with comprehensive tax policy in a fair and responsible way and let's deal with the deficit and the balance in a fair away. john boehner basically said no to all of that. and that's really not acceptable leadership. >> is there any -- should harry reid amend the...
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if they're not going to agree to a tax -- holding taxes down for those under a million dollars, they're definitely not dealing with $400,000 so, therefore, let's go back to the $250,000. i think that hurt them, boehner. i think that's why boehner is being controlled, unfortunately, by the right wing. i agree with bernie sanders. very sad. i believe that boehner's a good man and wants a deal done and impossible with these folks. >> the finger's not only pointed at the republicans and the tea party caucus but also to some democrats. here's one of your republican colleagues this morning. take a listen to what she said. >> sure. >> everything -- it's just about scoring political points and i know that the american people are tired of that. they're tired of all of us. i understand that. we just make -- used car sales men look good. that's the only group below us. we have to get our act together and prove to the american people that we can regain the trust that they once had in us and get the job done. >> yeah. the perception -- go ahead, please, congressman. looking at the can kicked down th
if they're not going to agree to a tax -- holding taxes down for those under a million dollars, they're definitely not dealing with $400,000 so, therefore, let's go back to the $250,000. i think that hurt them, boehner. i think that's why boehner is being controlled, unfortunately, by the right wing. i agree with bernie sanders. very sad. i believe that boehner's a good man and wants a deal done and impossible with these folks. >> the finger's not only pointed at the republicans and the...
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all the tax cuts including the tax cuts for the wealthy expire on january 1. so that is sort of a short term advantage. these programs, medicare, social security are incredibly popular. cutting them is unpopular. republicans' basic agenda is to cut them. some want to cut them or reform them for totally good reasons that costs are rising over time and as the population ages they take up more and more of the economy and more government spending. they are at a strategic disadvantage which is they want to cut programs that are incredib incredibly popular. anytime you are set against the consensus of public opinion it is a difficult course. you have to acknowledge that reality. as long as obama and democrats have that they will have the leverage as we repeat the negotiations in the decades to come. >> thank you for joining me. stick around we will be speaking with you two later this hour. >>> coming up the republican who is not afraid to stand up to his own party joins us live. what does he make of the sudden turn in the fiscal talks? is there still time to hammer
all the tax cuts including the tax cuts for the wealthy expire on january 1. so that is sort of a short term advantage. these programs, medicare, social security are incredibly popular. cutting them is unpopular. republicans' basic agenda is to cut them. some want to cut them or reform them for totally good reasons that costs are rising over time and as the population ages they take up more and more of the economy and more government spending. they are at a strategic disadvantage which is they...
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they get $120 billion tax break. and people come forward and say we're very serious about deficit reduction. third area that we have to look at, the president wanted, as you recall a few weeks ago, $1.6 trillion in new revenue. we're now down to, as i understand it, about $600 billion. a significant reduction. if you don't have new revenue coming in from the wealthiest people, it will mean, as we go down the pike -- >> there are so many issues like, this that are -- have been originally talked about. but when push comes to shove, and it comes up to the absolute deadline and everybody is hopefully still talking tomorrow, how narrow could this deal be to get it done? >> how what? >> how narrow could this deal be? could it be just about whose taxes expire and whose don't? >> as i think some of your commentators made, people have to understand the world does not collapse in terms of the so-called deficit cliff, which many of us see as a slope. it doesn't collapse on january 1. not everybody's taxes are going up. you have
they get $120 billion tax break. and people come forward and say we're very serious about deficit reduction. third area that we have to look at, the president wanted, as you recall a few weeks ago, $1.6 trillion in new revenue. we're now down to, as i understand it, about $600 billion. a significant reduction. if you don't have new revenue coming in from the wealthiest people, it will mean, as we go down the pike -- >> there are so many issues like, this that are -- have been originally...
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people are not propose iing mak the taxes like them. john boehner could not even pass the tax proposal he passed over there. he said no, can't do that. didn't he bring it up for a vote? >> tonight, speaker boehner's office put out this statement. >> joining me now are our guests. clearly the positioning game continues. harry reid saying we did our job months ago. do you think we til would be@posturing stage at the end of that white house meeting tomorrow? >> in your introduction you made the fundamental point here which is that this agreement before the end of the year, simply cannot go forward unless john by nor is willing to let it do so with majority democrats in the house. if we go over the curve as you put it, they can vote for a large tax decrease becaused off of the new rates that would be reset. they can say we votes to cut taxes for 98% of households. but it is the only scenario that i cap see out there in the near term. >> the building that read has passed. let's lis ep to what mitch mcconnell said about that? >> the senate bi
people are not propose iing mak the taxes like them. john boehner could not even pass the tax proposal he passed over there. he said no, can't do that. didn't he bring it up for a vote? >> tonight, speaker boehner's office put out this statement. >> joining me now are our guests. clearly the positioning game continues. harry reid saying we did our job months ago. do you think we til would be@posturing stage at the end of that white house meeting tomorrow? >> in your...
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the expiration of the tax cuts with a $2200 average tax high. the payroll tax cut would also expire meaning another $40 a paycheck and long-term unemployment benefits would end for 2 million americans. while these elements could have a recession-inducing effect, they could undo those measures shortly after the first of the year. estimations are if we do go over the cliff it would be the third quarter which the recession may hit. when be look at the issue of a -- the markets, however, may feel the brunt of the fiscal cliff fallout. the dow fell on friday after the deal failed the night before. last week fitch warned it may downgrade the u.s. credit rating if congress cannot reach a deal. some lawmakers are angling for the best political outcountry. >> when i listen to the president, i think he's eager to go over the cliff for political purposes. he gets all this additional tax revenue for new programs, gets to cut the military which democrats have been calling for for years, and he gets to blame republicans for it. implts joining me are off and o
the expiration of the tax cuts with a $2200 average tax high. the payroll tax cut would also expire meaning another $40 a paycheck and long-term unemployment benefits would end for 2 million americans. while these elements could have a recession-inducing effect, they could undo those measures shortly after the first of the year. estimations are if we do go over the cliff it would be the third quarter which the recession may hit. when be look at the issue of a -- the markets, however, may feel...
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so you need policy consensus, some tax reduction, some investment and education, and some tax breaks that will help sort of states specialize in different industries and attract them. >> let's end where we started. some criticisms coming out from ips saying the president has left some things on the table here. the estate taxes one of those that they bring to bear here. they also talk about hedge fund managers specifically being ability to get favorable tax rates there, too. how has the administration done with this? >> it's sort of paralysis on this issue. you know, the administration -- the republicans -- what we seed with a fiscal cliff and what we saw in our series is the ability to create consense politically is hurting us tremendously, economically. the earlier guest was talking about how these are self-inflected problems, and that's what's happening. tax rates will go up across the board. the condition does look like it will slip back, and it's a global change in the economy. again people with skills competing globally and doing very very well at the top. we're not addressing f
so you need policy consensus, some tax reduction, some investment and education, and some tax breaks that will help sort of states specialize in different industries and attract them. >> let's end where we started. some criticisms coming out from ips saying the president has left some things on the table here. the estate taxes one of those that they bring to bear here. they also talk about hedge fund managers specifically being ability to get favorable tax rates there, too. how has the...
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the tax policy center. the annual income from somebody in the $50,000 to $75,000, about a $2,400 increase. jumping ahead to $100,000 to $200,000, the average tax increase, $6,600. tacking at that great divide of the wealthy, over $250,000, at least a $11,000 tax hike. over $1 million, more than $254,000. >> hampton, looking at that number, that's for those americans working right now. there are still struggling americans, millions looking for work and what's the fiscal cliff mean for them? >> reporter: okay. we have unemployment at 7.7% last month and mainly went down because people gave up looking for work and jdropped out of th job market and out of work six months or longer. 4.8 million americans, they're the folks worried the most about unemployment benefits not extended after the first of the year. >> as we look at that number, that's staggering for so many. we have a "the washington post" poll that indicates 74% of americans support raising taxes on the top earners in this country. with that support t
the tax policy center. the annual income from somebody in the $50,000 to $75,000, about a $2,400 increase. jumping ahead to $100,000 to $200,000, the average tax increase, $6,600. tacking at that great divide of the wealthy, over $250,000, at least a $11,000 tax hike. over $1 million, more than $254,000. >> hampton, looking at that number, that's for those americans working right now. there are still struggling americans, millions looking for work and what's the fiscal cliff mean for...
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whose taxes will go up? people who earn more than 250,000 a year or people who earn more than 450,000 a year? republicans want to see the 450,000 threshold and democrats, 250,000. you need a few republicans in the house and democrats in the senate. it's more likely to be the 400,000 threshold. something the president offered. what does this do about taxes on inherited estates? currently, an estate worth $5 million or more gets taxed at a 35% rate. will that stay or change at all? and all of the automatic budget cuts we've deputy talking about for a year. nothing that would suggest that something will come up, later perhaps by march when they talk about the debt ceiling. >> he's talking about later in march, talking about a small deal being done now, which means we have to be back doing this all over again. >> yeah, the only thing on the table at this point are the tax rates extending bush tax cuts and a whole suite of things that were part of the fiscal cliff that aren't going to be touched. we'll have the d
whose taxes will go up? people who earn more than 250,000 a year or people who earn more than 450,000 a year? republicans want to see the 450,000 threshold and democrats, 250,000. you need a few republicans in the house and democrats in the senate. it's more likely to be the 400,000 threshold. something the president offered. what does this do about taxes on inherited estates? currently, an estate worth $5 million or more gets taxed at a 35% rate. will that stay or change at all? and all of the...
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the bush tax cuts will expire. everyone, even republicans know if we go over the cliff, the bush tax cuts will be restored for at least 98% of americans. payroll taxes will go back to normal in 2013. the payroll tax cut was always intended to be a temporary measure. the alternative minimum tax would hit middle class americans. year after year, this has been fixed by lawmakers and like everything else notice fiscal cliff, it can be done retroactively. the harshest effects of spending cuts could be modified in the first month or two of 2013. in fact, the defense department, the irs and other government agencies are planning no immediate changes because they're anticipating some kind of deal. that leaves the unemployed, extended unemployment insurance will expire immediately if we go over the cliff. a deal later in january could theoretically restore extended benefits, the immediate damage will have already been done. for many people, this is all an interesting charade. but for the unemployed it's the real deal. get y
the bush tax cuts will expire. everyone, even republicans know if we go over the cliff, the bush tax cuts will be restored for at least 98% of americans. payroll taxes will go back to normal in 2013. the payroll tax cut was always intended to be a temporary measure. the alternative minimum tax would hit middle class americans. year after year, this has been fixed by lawmakers and like everything else notice fiscal cliff, it can be done retroactively. the harshest effects of spending cuts could...
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democrats will say they need that much in taxes, too. and because they've already raised rates, they got those middle class tax cuts extended, and the rich ones expired, they'll be open to do hitting through tax reform, which will be easier for republicans to swallow. let's say they do get the one to one match. that will be an $800 billion tax increase for a $1.4 trillion revenue increase in total. so democrats could easily end up when all of this is said and done with more revenue than president obama was asking for a week ago. and it will happen if it happens, because over and over and over and over again, john boehner and the house republicans could not take yes for an answer. they had to say no to this president. so they kept delaying until they were weaker. they pushed negotiations from 2011 where they were very strong, until 2012, right after the president had won re-election, and now they're pushing to 13, after the fiscal cliff hits and they get blamed. it is an odd way to negotiate. to get one republican view on what will come n
democrats will say they need that much in taxes, too. and because they've already raised rates, they got those middle class tax cuts extended, and the rich ones expired, they'll be open to do hitting through tax reform, which will be easier for republicans to swallow. let's say they do get the one to one match. that will be an $800 billion tax increase for a $1.4 trillion revenue increase in total. so democrats could easily end up when all of this is said and done with more revenue than...
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but those two things will offset the estate tax, as i understand it, is a big sticking point. obama wants to see it go up. the senate republicans will insist that it stays at its current rate. this is what happens when you make deals with very little time to spare. you basically force your respective party forces to swallow what you give him. >> thank you. we'll be back in a moment. this is "hardball" the place for politics. this is flo. i need you. i feel so alone. but you're not alone. i knew you'd come. like i could stay away. you know i can't do this without you. you'll never have to. you're always there for me. shh! i'll get you a rental car. i could also use an umbrella. fall in love with progressive's claims service. >>> welcome back to "hardball." what will a deal look like, if there is one, and who's going to wind up giving up more on the tax cuts for wealthy americans. harry reid says $250,000 is a threshold, but that may not hold. joining me now, josh green. josh, for the markets, for the business community, whether it's 250,000, i know it's a big deal for politicia
but those two things will offset the estate tax, as i understand it, is a big sticking point. obama wants to see it go up. the senate republicans will insist that it stays at its current rate. this is what happens when you make deals with very little time to spare. you basically force your respective party forces to swallow what you give him. >> thank you. we'll be back in a moment. this is "hardball" the place for politics. this is flo. i need you. i feel so alone. but you're...
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incomes under $20,000 will get hit with a $400 tax hike. between $20,000 and $40,000, more than 1,200 more. $40,000 of $65,000, $1,900 and between $65,000 and $108,000, expect to pay $3,500 more in taxes and anything above that, uncle sam's going to take more than $14,000. joining me to talk about this, congressman yarmuth of kentucky. you are due back in washington sunday we're told. what will you tell your constituents if they're subject to those tax hikes that i just showed? >> well, i'm going to tell them what i've been saying and that is that unfortunately we have a republican majority in the house that doesn't believe in raising taxes on anyone, no matter how well think they may be. and really, is not interested in a balanced approach to deficit reduction. it's been pretty clear that that's the story we have been telling and it happens to be the truth. >> i understand that two of colleagues proposed cuts to medicare for a hike in the debt ceiling. what do you make of that offer? >> i think one of the things that people don't realize i
incomes under $20,000 will get hit with a $400 tax hike. between $20,000 and $40,000, more than 1,200 more. $40,000 of $65,000, $1,900 and between $65,000 and $108,000, expect to pay $3,500 more in taxes and anything above that, uncle sam's going to take more than $14,000. joining me to talk about this, congressman yarmuth of kentucky. you are due back in washington sunday we're told. what will you tell your constituents if they're subject to those tax hikes that i just showed? >> well,...
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and all tax rates will go up on income tax and estate taxes and all the bad stuff will happen, and how that's good politics. >> look, politicians are creatures of narrow self-interest. from the self-interested standpoint of a republican house member from a safe district who fears a primary challenge, yes, it's better for them to wait three days, cast -- go over the cliff, cast a vote to cut taxes and basically screw all the people who are going to be affected by it preserving their own jobs than it is to agree to a tax increase now and risk the wrath of the tea party right two years from now. >> chris, let me ask you about another possible, i hope it doesn't happen. next tuesday or next wednesday when the market reopens on january 2nd and they fully realize at that point that this cliff has been gone over and the congress has failed to meet its own targets which it set itself when it set this cliff up, who will pay the price if, say, the market drops 500 or 1,000 points and keeps dropping for two or three days and that creates the chances for a second dip, a second recession? who will
and all tax rates will go up on income tax and estate taxes and all the bad stuff will happen, and how that's good politics. >> look, politicians are creatures of narrow self-interest. from the self-interested standpoint of a republican house member from a safe district who fears a primary challenge, yes, it's better for them to wait three days, cast -- go over the cliff, cast a vote to cut taxes and basically screw all the people who are going to be affected by it preserving their own...
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nobody wants the taxes on the 98% of the american people to go up. i think we can act quickly to take care of that. >> to me it makes like there is no way there will be a deal done unless there 230 tom coles. >> it's funny that you see tom cole saying i want to come back to washington, d.c. tomorrow because i think boehner -- tom said absolutely not. they are this close to the deadline, there is no real idea of what's happening. these are our elected leaders. >> the video clip you may want to play tomorrow is kick the can down the road from republicans and democrats and the house and senate. it's the phrase du jour to that conveys no action. it's a sad state and here we are. >> congressman cole is wrong in saying nobody wants to see middle class taxes go up. nobody wants to see themselves getting blamed. that's the real dynamic. nobody is attached to the taxes in d.c. we'll be back with our l in a bit. now trivia question. the answer, maryland junior senator ben cardin. he spent 20 terms in the house before becoming a senator. that's a good chunk of
nobody wants the taxes on the 98% of the american people to go up. i think we can act quickly to take care of that. >> to me it makes like there is no way there will be a deal done unless there 230 tom coles. >> it's funny that you see tom cole saying i want to come back to washington, d.c. tomorrow because i think boehner -- tom said absolutely not. they are this close to the deadline, there is no real idea of what's happening. these are our elected leaders. >> the video clip...
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tax bills -- and this is going to fundamentally be a tax bill when we pass it. they have to begin in the house of representatives. they can't originate in the white house. the president can't write legislation or pass it sifl. the founders would have been shocked to hear congressional leaders talking this way. but put that aside. mccollum basically said to reid i can't help on this one. how did harry reid respond? this way. >> speaker boehner should call members of the house back to washington today. he shouldn't have let them go, in fact. they're not here. they are not here. john boehner seems to care more about keeping his speakership than about keeping the nation on firm financial footing. >> right. so that's pretty much where we are now. boehner's out, mcconnell's out. reid says it's up to boehner, white house can't get boehner to talk to them. it's kind of a mess, senator schatz. and it is now part of your party. so what is the next move? there is late news tonight that president obama will convene a meeting of congressional leaders at the white house tomor
tax bills -- and this is going to fundamentally be a tax bill when we pass it. they have to begin in the house of representatives. they can't originate in the white house. the president can't write legislation or pass it sifl. the founders would have been shocked to hear congressional leaders talking this way. but put that aside. mccollum basically said to reid i can't help on this one. how did harry reid respond? this way. >> speaker boehner should call members of the house back to...
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republicans can vote for a tax cut. democrats are in a stronger position because they have more tax cuts that they want. i would get familiar with the phrase the last train leaving the station which is always the last bill coming off capitol hill before the session ends. this gets chalked up with a lot of stuff. it could even be monday. senate has a last train leaving the station. mcconnell decides not to block amendments, gets to the floor of the senate, gets to the floor, gets passed. i don't think it's unreasonable to think that can conceivably happen. >> mike, we don't have a lot of time, but do you see that as being reasonable that mcconnell would go down that route? >> mcconnell, i don't great with steve. i've had january 10th in the pool for quite some time as the day they come to an agreement. i think the question is will the republicans have any leverage at that point to get the spending cuts and entitlement reforms that were on the table before they're going to give up their leverage? and .i think they're goin
republicans can vote for a tax cut. democrats are in a stronger position because they have more tax cuts that they want. i would get familiar with the phrase the last train leaving the station which is always the last bill coming off capitol hill before the session ends. this gets chalked up with a lot of stuff. it could even be monday. senate has a last train leaving the station. mcconnell decides not to block amendments, gets to the floor of the senate, gets to the floor, gets passed. i don't...
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people making 40 to $65,000 get a $2,000 tax hike and anyone, would see a $14,000 tax bump. where else would americans see the sting? talk to me about medicare and unemployment benefits. >> this whole metaphor we've been using about a fiscal cliff probably isn't the right one to be used. after all, if you go over a cliff, you usually don't get to live to tell about it unless you're batman or spider-man, but there are things that actually would happen right away and one of those things that would be right away in a negative impact would be unemployment benefits and 2 million americans would see the unemployment benefits and that would hurt the economy and that would hurt these people that are relying on this and the unemployment insurance has been seen as economic stimulus to get hands into the money of people who need it and they were things that actually get spread over the course of 2013 if there is no fix that is actually done and it is possible for congress to go back and fix things and talking about the increase of tax rates and there will also be spending cuts to gover
people making 40 to $65,000 get a $2,000 tax hike and anyone, would see a $14,000 tax bump. where else would americans see the sting? talk to me about medicare and unemployment benefits. >> this whole metaphor we've been using about a fiscal cliff probably isn't the right one to be used. after all, if you go over a cliff, you usually don't get to live to tell about it unless you're batman or spider-man, but there are things that actually would happen right away and one of those things...
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they didn't even want millionaires to have any increase in taxes. those fanatics, being as fa nat cal as they are, might not even do what most of us assume they would do if we went over the curb and eventually come around. in other words, even the republicans as a whole are taking a shellacing in the polls, individual republicans, when they go back to their districts, they're most worried about being attacked from the right, having a primary challenger in 2014 from the right. so it's not exactly clear right now that the democrat strategy which i have been touting and you have been touting and most of us assume will be the strategy if we go over the curb, that is, come up with a bill that provides a middle class tax relief retroactive to the first of january, it's not 100% sure that's going to work any longer now that we know now fanatical the fanatics are. >> john, tell me how the republicans who refuse to go on with the boehner plan b could somehow, between now and new year's eve, go along with something else that was possibly less attractive to th
they didn't even want millionaires to have any increase in taxes. those fanatics, being as fa nat cal as they are, might not even do what most of us assume they would do if we went over the curb and eventually come around. in other words, even the republicans as a whole are taking a shellacing in the polls, individual republicans, when they go back to their districts, they're most worried about being attacked from the right, having a primary challenger in 2014 from the right. so it's not...
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taxes shurnt go up. if they were to go up by law, conceivably they could come back in january and lower them and campaign on the fact that they lowers taxed. >> let's take a look at what speaker boehner said on friday. >> many of us believe on both sides of the aisle, the fundamental reform of our taxes will help get our economy moving faster and get more americans back to work. how we get there, god only knows. >> so the president says he's going to head back to washington after christmas to try and hammer out a deal before new year's. babe boehner said god only knows, god and ed o'keefe. how do they get there? >> for practical reasons there, are bills sitting in either chamber right now that the other chamber has passed, the house is telling the senate, pass our bill. the senate is telling the house pass our bill. either of those bills could be amended and sent back across the capitol, and make some changes, and send it back for final passage and sent send it to the president. can you get that done in
taxes shurnt go up. if they were to go up by law, conceivably they could come back in january and lower them and campaign on the fact that they lowers taxed. >> let's take a look at what speaker boehner said on friday. >> many of us believe on both sides of the aisle, the fundamental reform of our taxes will help get our economy moving faster and get more americans back to work. how we get there, god only knows. >> so the president says he's going to head back to washington...
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the payroll tax holiday. maybe you don't give the whole amount, just part of it. it adds up to $200 billion so the economy continues to grow. then the debt reduction is raised by february. >> mr. davis. he started his comment about solving this saying you have to take the politics out of it. it's not possible at this point. even though the deal, everything you heard from him, you may have agreed with and go along with it. how are you going to take the politics out of it with the clock ticking? >> if you don't get an agreement, it's going to hurt both parties. somebody may have the advantage today and tomorrow in the news headlines, if this doesn't happen, it hurts the president's legacy, it hardens the lines between them. this is not, as joe said, complicated to solve over the short term. long term, a little more complicated. if they can't get through this, it makes it much more difficult over the long term. >> to both of you here, you heard something the president said. david gregory pushed back on the presi
the payroll tax holiday. maybe you don't give the whole amount, just part of it. it adds up to $200 billion so the economy continues to grow. then the debt reduction is raised by february. >> mr. davis. he started his comment about solving this saying you have to take the politics out of it. it's not possible at this point. even though the deal, everything you heard from him, you may have agreed with and go along with it. how are you going to take the politics out of it with the clock...
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>> if all tax rates go up, any deal can be called a tax cut. it's simple like that. if you go over the cliff, anything's a tax cut. >> if you do it now how's it interpreted? >> the interpretation will some primary voters is you danced around on rates. >> or they pass a bill cutting taxes continuing the bush tax cuts for under $500,000 a year. something they agree on. >> because of what bob's saying is they're worried some voters are going to look at that -- >> unaware of reality that they would confuse this week with next week in terms of the same results. >> governor norquist agrees with you. but some republicans especially in the house who are unwilling to make the plan "b" type deal. >> but in the end where do you think it's going to end up? $500,000? $600,000? >> it's going to be in the middle. closer to obama's $400,000. >> i think that's about right. sounds about like $400,000. >> which leaves out less than 2% of the people. >> absolutely. >> people say that's an average income. most people make about $40,000 a year. that's average. $40,000 and that's with thre
>> if all tax rates go up, any deal can be called a tax cut. it's simple like that. if you go over the cliff, anything's a tax cut. >> if you do it now how's it interpreted? >> the interpretation will some primary voters is you danced around on rates. >> or they pass a bill cutting taxes continuing the bush tax cuts for under $500,000 a year. something they agree on. >> because of what bob's saying is they're worried some voters are going to look at that --...
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everybody's taxes would go up. you won't feel that immediately with most of these things, but with unemployment insurance and others, you will. there will be a grass roots feeling among americans. if you look at the polls, republicans will get blamed. they themselves are wary of this. that's why democrats would politically feel inclined to go over the cliff. there will be so much on republicans, this might be the only way they agree to raise taxes. >> not to mention in the next senate too. 55 democrats and four seats in the house. >> quickly for both of you, we covered this today. i'm surprised by the lack of urgency. does that surprise you as well? >> this is not the debt ceiling. say we are working through the weekends and training mcconnell and biden on the phone and the president involved. really to take christmas off facing the fiscal cliff in a week shows how little optimism there is. >> i completely agree. we spent many late nights in the capital and is it doesn't seem like that is going to happen. >> amazin
everybody's taxes would go up. you won't feel that immediately with most of these things, but with unemployment insurance and others, you will. there will be a grass roots feeling among americans. if you look at the polls, republicans will get blamed. they themselves are wary of this. that's why democrats would politically feel inclined to go over the cliff. there will be so much on republicans, this might be the only way they agree to raise taxes. >> not to mention in the next senate...
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we're going to have the votes to pass both the tax -- permanent tax relief bill, as well as the spending reduction account. >> i am not convinced at all that when the bill passes the house today, that it will die in the senate. >> you know, the bill never got to the senate because it never passed the house because it turns out you guys didn't have the votes to pass it in the house. and the most important thing here is that you thought you did. you counted wrong. you thought you had the votes and you didn't. you did not know that you were going to lose that vote on your own legislation because of the votes of your own side. you didn't know you were going to lose it until you started to lose it, and then you had to shut everything down at emergency speed. whether you prefer the policies of john boehner or you prefer the policies of nancy pelosi, if you just compare them, technocratically speaking, nancy pelosi never lost a vote. she never once got so confused and lost control of the group she was supposed to be leading, she never got caught out saying something was going to pass. she never
we're going to have the votes to pass both the tax -- permanent tax relief bill, as well as the spending reduction account. >> i am not convinced at all that when the bill passes the house today, that it will die in the senate. >> you know, the bill never got to the senate because it never passed the house because it turns out you guys didn't have the votes to pass it in the house. and the most important thing here is that you thought you did. you counted wrong. you thought you had...
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cuts or tax breaks. nbc's peter alexander, thank you. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] it's simple physics... a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function so moving is easier. celebrex can be taken with or without food. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen, and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. they all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death.
cuts or tax breaks. nbc's peter alexander, thank you. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] it's simple physics... a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain...
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but those two things will offset the estate tax, as i understand it, is a big sticking point. obama wants to see it go up. the senate republicans will insist that it stays at its kurnt rate. this is what happens when you make deals with very little time to spare. you basically force your respective party forces to swal slow what you give him. >> thank you. we'll be back in a moment. this is "hardball" the place for politics. we're all having such a great year in the gulf, we've decided to put aside our rivalry. 'cause all our states are great. and now is when the gulf gets even better. the beaches and waters couldn't be more beautiful. take a boat ride or just lay in the sun. enjoy the wildlife and natural beauty. and don't forget our amazing seafood. so come to the gulf, you'll have a great time. especially in alabama. you mean mississippi. that's florida. say louisiana or there's no dessert. brought to you by bp and all of us who call the gulf home. mine was earned off vietnam in 1968. over the south pacific in 1943. i got mine in iraq, 2003. usaa auto insurance is often han
but those two things will offset the estate tax, as i understand it, is a big sticking point. obama wants to see it go up. the senate republicans will insist that it stays at its kurnt rate. this is what happens when you make deals with very little time to spare. you basically force your respective party forces to swal slow what you give him. >> thank you. we'll be back in a moment. this is "hardball" the place for politics. we're all having such a great year in the gulf, we've...
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and the estate tax. it goes on. it goes on. it goes on. why, david jackson, haven't people started screaming from the streets and screaming from the rooftops about what this mean, this is a manufactured crisis. >> well, they haven't felt it in their paycheck and they will after january 1. the government will be taking more out of their paychecks and when the tax time will roll by in april, they'll feel it and businesses will feel it. once people will see they're losing money on this deal you'll see more public outrage about it. >> david naka, mura, calling for an up or down vote if the senate can't come up with it. he's talking about 250,000, at one point 400,000. is it realistic to think that the president can win this thing on an up or down vote? >> if they actually go to an up and down vote there will be a lot of pressure on those who were against a temporary fix with this to make their case known and actually go on the record. that's why the question is would the republican senators who would oppose
and the estate tax. it goes on. it goes on. it goes on. why, david jackson, haven't people started screaming from the streets and screaming from the rooftops about what this mean, this is a manufactured crisis. >> well, they haven't felt it in their paycheck and they will after january 1. the government will be taking more out of their paychecks and when the tax time will roll by in april, they'll feel it and businesses will feel it. once people will see they're losing money on this deal...
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at that point republicans can support a deal without voting for a tax increase, in fact, because tax rates have automatically reset higher, they can say now we're voting for a big tax cut for the broad middle class. >> is that what's going to ensure that speaker boehner is not in danger is it. >> right. i mean, that's where someone earlier said, you know, he's got to figure out whether he's for the country or for his own job. in many ways he's preserving his own job by not pushing a vote by which the only way that vote would get over the legislative would be with a majority of democrats. he doesn't want to do that to preserve his job. once we go over the cliff, we can possibly do more of a bungee jump if we reverse the damage quickly. in that vote republicans don't have to vote for a tax increase, which to me is absolutely ridiculous in terms of serving the economy and the country, but i guess the politics makes sense to some of these guys. >>> jared bernstein, thank you. the storm is coming. look at that storm, the symptom is coming behind you. >> you weren't talking about a fiscal
at that point republicans can support a deal without voting for a tax increase, in fact, because tax rates have automatically reset higher, they can say now we're voting for a big tax cut for the broad middle class. >> is that what's going to ensure that speaker boehner is not in danger is it. >> right. i mean, that's where someone earlier said, you know, he's got to figure out whether he's for the country or for his own job. in many ways he's preserving his own job by not pushing a...
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, not a rise in taxes? >> chuck schumer brought up a good point. a key moment of these entire negotiations came on wednesday night when president obama calls mitch mcconnell, bring the republican leader in the process. what happens now is very important. as sam said, they'll be negotiating today and over the weekend in the senate. and if this $250,000 comes to the floor, if a few republicans attach themselves to what reid and obama agree to, then that means when it pose gophers to the house it has a much better chance of attracting republican support. if mitch mcconnell aligns republicans and tells everyone to oppose it in the senate republican conference, the chances of it succeeding in the house are pretty low. >> sam, is this the end of the road for grover norquist and his pledge? >> it's odd because grover was the one sort of outside government institution on the conservative side who agreed with speaker boehner's plan "b" which would have allowed taxes to go up above $1 million in income. all the other
, not a rise in taxes? >> chuck schumer brought up a good point. a key moment of these entire negotiations came on wednesday night when president obama calls mitch mcconnell, bring the republican leader in the process. what happens now is very important. as sam said, they'll be negotiating today and over the weekend in the senate. and if this $250,000 comes to the floor, if a few republicans attach themselves to what reid and obama agree to, then that means when it pose gophers to the...
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but it will include the education tax credit and the child tax credit and the earned income tax credit. these are refundable tax credits that affect mostly low-income people. so that will be on the table. but, you know, the republicans, the disdain that i have seen for poor people, from people who are struggling, like senior citizens on medicare and social security, for low-income people and the women, infant, and children program, we saw the republicans last week vote to spending cuts that would literally take food out of the mouths of hungry babies and in this country, you want to talk about crisis, fiscal crisis, et cetera, a crisis is that one out of five american children is hungry at some point during the year. that is just immoral. and they voted to even cut that. and so i agree with you. i think we have to talk about the consequences for real people. middle class, and as the president said tonight, those who aspire to the middle class. and that would include the unemployed right now, and we're going to extend unemployment insurance benefits. >> yeah, that's critical. gop source
but it will include the education tax credit and the child tax credit and the earned income tax credit. these are refundable tax credits that affect mostly low-income people. so that will be on the table. but, you know, the republicans, the disdain that i have seen for poor people, from people who are struggling, like senior citizens on medicare and social security, for low-income people and the women, infant, and children program, we saw the republicans last week vote to spending cuts that...
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that we're talking about, whether it's something called the alternative minimum tax or the estate tax or extending the current bush-era income tax cuts, all of them cost money. all of them mean we have less revenue to support the operations of government, so if going forward we're going to reach a balance, where we both cut spending and raise revenue, we have to achieve the right balance of those, so if there are folks in the other party, the republican party, who feel strongly that we should not allow income tax breaks of the last decade to continue, that's fine. i think they simply need to be willing to balance that with some of the democratic priorities like extending unemployment insurance benefits for nearly 2 million unemployed americans who will lose them tomorrow. >> thank you senator chris coons for joining us. >> thank you. >> coming up, former president george h.w. bush is out of icu, and the how the oak ridge boys may have helped lift his spirits. >>> and with less than 30 hours to go before the fiscal cliff, we're watching capitol hill for any kinds of a deal today. you'r
that we're talking about, whether it's something called the alternative minimum tax or the estate tax or extending the current bush-era income tax cuts, all of them cost money. all of them mean we have less revenue to support the operations of government, so if going forward we're going to reach a balance, where we both cut spending and raise revenue, we have to achieve the right balance of those, so if there are folks in the other party, the republican party, who feel strongly that we should...
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i think the payroll tax was so for the making tax credit. so when that wasn't renewed that was the best option. i think the payroll tax cut is the best option. i feel like i'm one note on this but to go back to what i said earlier. ultimately, what will keep social security sustainable is the rate of growth in the economy. and i had to trade a couple more years of reduced revenue for social security for more growth, i think more growth is the right trade to make. i'm worried -- a lot of worrying about if we keep the payroll tax low or we lose money for social security over the long term? probably, but i think it's offset by the additional growth you get from just having lower unemployment and faster gdp growth and the whole nine yards. >> one thing that the way they have deviced the payroll tax holiday, they say technically speaking they're not taking money from social security. they're replacing it with money from the general budget. so you never actually have, a gap. but the concern is that that ends up lumping together social security, wh
i think the payroll tax was so for the making tax credit. so when that wasn't renewed that was the best option. i think the payroll tax cut is the best option. i feel like i'm one note on this but to go back to what i said earlier. ultimately, what will keep social security sustainable is the rate of growth in the economy. and i had to trade a couple more years of reduced revenue for social security for more growth, i think more growth is the right trade to make. i'm worried -- a lot of...